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Dipole antenna in a liquid

 
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Navarra87RF
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Joined: 20 Feb 2017
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Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Dipole antenna in a liquid Reply with quote

Hello All,

I want to design a dipole submerged in a liquid. How that affects my design in comparison to free space?
Could you point out where I can find info regarding this design?

Thanks for your time and help!
Best,
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admin
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What type of liquid?

Water and especially salt water absorb rf energy.

You need to look up the dielectric constant of the liquid which determines how much shorter the antenna should be. Pretty simple
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Navarra87RF
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, "salt water" trying to replicate the human body's conditions. OK.
Will the liquid's Er affect also a lambda/4 balun?

Thanks again!
Best,
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admin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the salt water surrounds the conductors of the balun, yes it will affect the size
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Navarra87RF
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

I will try to fabricate the lambda/2 dipole with a folded balun.
How can I calculate the distance between the coax cable and the lambda/4 balun?

[img]http://www.antenna-theory.com/definitions/foldedbalun.jpg[/img]

Best,
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chaicustard
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lambda in water could be up to 1/10th that of that in air.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_permittivity
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/wavelength-tem-calculator/

Everything is scaled smaller, and its dependant on frequency ( esp above 1 GHz) . I doubt you can reliably scale any air-antenna without some modelling software.

Instead of thinking in radiating-antenna terms, you could treat the liquid as an energy-absorbing media, since the energy loss is far more in resistive heating loss, rather than a propogating electromagnetic field.

It depends on what youre actually trying to acheive in this design.
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geadinc
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Location: san diego, california

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navarra87RF wrote:
Thanks for your reply!

Yes, "salt water" trying to replicate the human body's conditions. OK.
Will the liquid's Er affect also a lambda/4 balun?

Thanks again!
Best,

The human body has varying conditions depending on where in the body you are 'located'. For example, human breast tissue has a dielectic constant of 5-10 (ignoring skin which is upwards of 45) and low conductivity of ~0.2. So for a 'phantom' a mixture of glycerin and de-ionized water works rather well except the loss through the mixture is much more than it is through actual tissue. Different organs vary mostly in relation to how much blood is contained in the tissue. Lungs are something altogether different since there is a mixture of air in there as well. So it really isn't as simple as using salt water.
De-ionized water, or distilled water, is rather fun to play with different antennas as it has a dielectric constant of ~80 and no conductivity and little loss. So antennas are roughly 9x smaller for the same frequency as air! We made UWB bowtie antennas that worked well and were only 3/8" across.
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